Tell HN: OpenAI now requires ID verification and won't refund API credits

Just frustrated here: I credited my OpenAI API account with credits, and then it turns out I have to go through some verification process to actually use the API, which involves disclosing personal data to some third-party vendor, which I am not prepared to do. So I asked for a refund and am told that that refunds are against their policy.

So I'll be cancelling my chatgpt plus sub, disputing the card payment, and moving to deepseek.

Edit: Deepseek seems to be a lot cheaper than OpenAI

Edit 2: seems verification is only needed for gpt-5, gpt-4o seems to work without it

170 points | by retube 21 hours ago

25 comments

  • deaux 10 hours ago
    When they started doing this ID verification early this year, I expressed outrage on here, and was met by comments downplaying it saying "It's a given that soon the others will follow". I'm sure some of those came from people at OpenAI.

    We're now at the end of the year and neither Google nor Anthropic nor any single other LLM provider does this. OpenAI does this because their CEO is SamA. That's it.

    • dlcarrier 1 hour ago
      Google, on the other hand, gives me AI responses that I never asked for, even when I'm using a private browsing window, from a dynamic IP address.
    • cool_man_bob 6 hours ago
      > I'm sure some of those came from people at OpenAI.

      Don’t underestimate the volume of useful idiots.

  • rsync 11 hours ago
    A certain business I own has an openai account for testing and research purposes.

    What ID would we provide?

    Would we pick some random employee to attach to the account?

    What relevance does this have to the notion of “piercing the corporate veil” if a business account is tied to someone’s drivers license?

    I place the blame for this situation squarely on the careless and thoughtless user population who have blindly provided their phone numbers and now ID scans to any old random, fly by night, start up who request them.

    • paulddraper 10 hours ago
      I assume the correct answer is an officer of the company, the same as for who signs contracts etc
  • crazygringo 18 hours ago
    Just searched for their actual policies to corroborate and found the policies on ID verification:

    https://help.openai.com/en/articles/10910291-api-organizatio...

    And that credits are nonrefundable:

    https://openai.com/policies/service-credit-terms/

    It absolutely seems like terrible horrible customer service not to issue refunds in this case. Obviously the credits can still be used for most of the models, so it's not like you can't do anything with them. But if someone explains they bought the credits specifically to use with the verification-gated models and then discovered they couldn't (since apparently verification fails for some people), there's no question that refunds are the right thing to do. What is OpenAI thinking?

    (BTW, speculation seems to be that the verification process doesn't have anything to do with know-your-customer laws or anti-fraud, but is intended to prevent competitors like Chinese DeepSeek from having large-scale access to OpenAI's best models.)

    • pjmlp 16 hours ago
      Depending on where the post author is located, whatever says on those links is worth garbage if they are located in Europe.

      Most European countries have consumer protection agencies with teeth, and a company cannot decide on their own what they refund or not.

      • retube 9 hours ago
        This may be true, but potentially involves much time, energy, and money by the author to challenge.... so for 99% of people, OpenAI will get away with it
    • potamic 17 hours ago
      That's kinda scammy. It's not like they have to manage shipments and handle goods or anything. I wonder if they're banking on a percentage of users leaving credits unused like credit card companies do with loyalty points.
      • helicone 11 hours ago
        I don't think they care one way or the other. They haven't ever been profitable, and so they're likely going to build up data and pull the rug on all of their users by suddenly declaring themselves a data broker. They won't try this against companies that can afford to sue, but most of their users will probably start to get even more creepily targeted ads directed at them.
    • logicchains 17 hours ago
      >(BTW, speculation seems to be that the verification process doesn't have anything to do with know-your-customer laws or anti-fraud, but is intended to prevent competitors like Chinese DeepSeek from having large-scale access to OpenAI's best models.)

      It's not because OpenAI's CEO is also the founder of WorldCoin, a project to ID everyone?

      • egorfine 15 hours ago
        Funny though their KYC process is not done via WorldCoin. Obviously because WorldCoin KYC is useless for authorities.
    • irvingprime 16 hours ago
      Customer service? In the age of AI? What have you been smoking?
  • syntaxing 17 hours ago
    You can try the latest GLM 4.6 https://z.ai/ . Their coding plan is $6 a month and performs on par to Sonnet 4 for my personal task. Sonnet 4.5 still has an edge though. All of ZLM’s models are also open sourced so you can run it locally if you want
    • mark_l_watson 17 hours ago
      I am mostly retired but I am thinking of restarting a solo products mini-company next year. I have been looking at much less expensive options like Alibaba Cloud, GLM, Kimi K2, etc. There is a recent Stanford study showing most US startups are using less expensive Chinese models, but I think usually hosted in the US.

      For now I am happy enough with Gemini and GPT-5 because my usage is so lite that anything is cheap. For many engineering use cases, Gemini-2.5-flash-lite works well enough.

      How do you use GLM? With codex —oss? Or, just ‘raw’ with no agent-wrapping coding environment?

      • syntaxing 11 hours ago
        I use it directly with Claude code [1]. Honestly, it just makes sense IMO to host your own model when you have your own company. You can try something like openrouter for now and then setup your own hardware. Since most of these models are MoE, you dont have to load everything in VRAM. A mixture of a 5090 + EPYC CPU + 256GB of DDR5 RAM can go a very long way. You can unload most of the expert layers onto CPU and leave the rest on GPU. As usual Unsloth has a great page about it [2]

        [1] https://docs.z.ai/scenario-example/develop-tools/claude [2] https://docs.unsloth.ai/models/glm-4.6-how-to-run-locally

      • mitjam 12 hours ago
        Hope you‘ll share your story if you start. Love your book on langchain from iirc 2y ago, it got me going.
      • mistrial9 16 hours ago
        > There is a recent Stanford study showing most US startups are using less expensive Chinese models

        link ?

        • mitjam 11 hours ago
          Idk if this is the reference but it’s in the same direction:

          „ These days, when entrepreneurs pitch at Andreessen Horowitz (a16z), a major Silicon Valley venture-capital firm, there’s a high chance their startups are running on Chinese models. “I’d say there’s an 80% chance they’re using a Chinese open-source model,” notes Martin Casado, a partner at a16z.“ —- https://ixbroker.com/blog/china-is-quietly-overtaking-americ...

  • gdulli 17 hours ago
    It's hard to know exactly which forms it will end up taking, but dependence on these companies is going nowhere good. And more quickly than it took streaming (for example) to go from offering a better experience (to win market share) to the current (and inevitable) norm of raising prices constantly and introducing unskippable ads.
    • dawnerd 16 hours ago
      I could totally see them having responses sprinkled with subtle marketing. Ask it for the best travel backpack and ooops all sponsored.
      • conception 16 hours ago
        This is already the case for OpenAI. Go ask for some backpack recommendations.
    • CaptainOfCoit 17 hours ago
      > and introducing unskippable ads.

      Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but where on either ChatGPT or the API platform OpenAI hosts are you seeing ads?

      • mapontosevenths 17 hours ago
        > it took streaming...

        Parent is comparing OpenAI to other companies that followed a similar trajectory of enshittification.

        • gdulli 16 hours ago
          Yes, and just as ads eventually came to streaming in a worse form (unskippable, hypertargeted) that cable companies didn't have the ability to innovate, the new frontier of ads will again come with qualitatively worse innovations. Seamless and undisclosed in conversational LLM output.
  • puppycodes 13 hours ago
    I wouldn't tie my email to a chatbot let alone my literal goverment ID.
  • egorfine 18 hours ago
    Indeed. I have opened the playground and it doesn't let me choose GPT-5. Obviously I will not be KYCing myself.

    But that's okay. There are plenty of other models. Perhaps not bleeding edge great, but great nevertheless.

    • tensility 16 hours ago
      As far as I understand, many users are better off with GPT-4o anyway. Amusing to be charging premiums for an objectively bad upgrade, but I guess that's the kind of bullshit economics that hype cycles create.
      • Sabinus 6 hours ago
        How are users better off with 4o? I thought the point of 5 was that delivered better results for cheaper in less tokens.
      • egorfine 15 hours ago
        I meant competitors
    • SarahPeter 18 hours ago
      [dead]
      • egorfine 15 hours ago
        I meant competitors.
  • jarym 17 hours ago
    Wonder how long before they'll have to start reporting 'suspicious activity' to the government same as financial institutions have to do for money transfers.
    • A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 17 hours ago
      You can reasonably assume it is already happening. The only difference is that for FIs it is required by law, that it is relatively similar across the board in terms of implementation and openai is a one giant source of info you wouldn't get anywhere else.

      It fairly accurately measured my age, location, place of birth and political inclinations based on our conversations alone. I am certain it can infer a lot more.

      • egorfine 15 hours ago
        This.

        There is no other reason to require KYC for a server-side text transformation tool, no matter how impressive it is.

        • weird-eye-issue 4 hours ago
          No other reason? What about simply fraud protection. The same reason they switched new accounts to be where you have to pay to buy credits first instead of paying at the end of the month. There is a ton of fraud in this industry
        • Mars008 8 hours ago
          The other reason could be the copyright cases they are fighting in court. OAI was ordered to keep all records, including private. Not sure if it was lifted already.

          And another could be EU requirements for age verification. AI can produce adult content.

          There are may be other reasons, like to prevent using OAI models' output to train competing models.

      • weird-eye-issue 16 hours ago
        Absolutely not. It would require product, engineering, admin, etc. effort to do that and unless it isn't required by law why would they waste the time when they have a lot else to do?
        • orthecreedence 16 hours ago
          > why would they waste the time

          Because then the NSA shows up with an NSL, you integrate with the fascist surveillance state or you lose your business. How have people forgotten this so fucking quickly?

          • A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 15 hours ago
            To be fair, I am interested in the subject and I don't even remember the name of the telecom that tried to buck under pressure and went out of business not long after. It has been that long. It is possible so I give people some grace.
          • weird-eye-issue 4 hours ago
            Did you miss where I said "unless it is required by law"
        • bgwalter 16 hours ago
          They have an ex-NSA chief on the board, and doing surveillance voluntarily may result in government help like getting contracts in South-Korea and Argentine that may bring in far more money than the implementation costs. Perhaps they outsource the implementation to Palantir or the NSA. It is basically a simple middleware that is inserted somewhere once the traffic is decrypted.

          So I don't think implementation costs are an obstacle.

    • queenkjuul 8 hours ago
      I'd have sworn they've already admitted to this
  • yalogin 13 hours ago
    If deepseek and qwen are capable why does one need to use OpenAI models? Are their models really that much better? If not the only they bring is the hosting service. N that scenario how long do they have this advantage before aws or Microsoft takes over?
    • Mars008 8 hours ago
      > If deepseek and qwen are capable why ...

      Of course, you can go further and run qwen locally. Or even train your own nanogpt. Why not if it's capable, right? And this 'if' is a big question.

      • yalogin 5 hours ago
        I was not trying to be snarky but rather a technical one
  • seneca 17 hours ago
    Yeah, I'm not at all willing to do these sorts of verifications. Any company doing them essentially doesn't exist to me. I don't even use Anthropic because they require a phone number to register.
    • quantummagic 17 hours ago
      Same. I don't understand why so many people are happy to give their phone number to some random service provider. It's a shame it has become normalized.
      • CaptainOfCoit 17 hours ago
        My phone number is basically public and has been for 20 years, every email I send has my phone number and it's findable via the public internet too.

        Not sure why people see their phone number as something private?

        FWIW, I've heard some people saying they avoid it because of spam, I've been on my local anti-spam list since I got my current phone number, and receive about 1 spam call every week or something. Maybe there is one for where you live too.

        • seneca 17 hours ago
          You're lucky. In my experience no-call lists don't work.

          I command a significant budget and even with a lot of effort to not proliferate my phone number, I get at least half a dozen spam or sales calls a day. I can't imagine how bad it would be if I didn't attempt to protect it. Perhaps it would be the same and I should just give up, but I'm not willing to try.

          The other side of the coin is that it's just none of their business. They don't need my phone number to sell me SaaS software. There is no upside for me to give it to them.

          • CaptainOfCoit 16 hours ago
            > You're lucky. In my experience no-call lists don't work.

            I don't think so, I've had friends and acquaintances that had the same issue as you, multiple spam calls per day. I helped them add themselves to their national list, and after a month or two the constant spamming stops.

            I think you might just be unlucky living in country that doesn't have such list that works OK. I've lived in multiple different countries so far in my life, and it's been the same thing in all of them, adding myself to the list eventually makes the spam stop.

  • binarymax 17 hours ago
    GPT-5 works, just not GPT-5 streaming. I posted about this a little while ago with more details: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44837367
    • thr0w 17 hours ago
      What is it about streaming specifically that necessitates this? Am I missing something obvious?
    • deaux 10 hours ago
      I thought this was indeed the case at release, but then they changed it to also be for non-streaming (completions). So either they reverted it back or it was a temporary bug during the early days of the model.

      When did you last check?

      • binarymax 6 hours ago
        I ran a test just now, and gpt-5 without streaming works without the biometric check.
  • comrade1234 16 hours ago
    I put $2 on my deepseek account and have barely used it, it's so cheap.
  • mkbkn 18 hours ago
    Raise a chargeback
    • rhetocj23 17 hours ago
      This - and in future ensure any purchases are made on a credit card not debit card.
      • tobwen 16 hours ago
        In Europe, SEPA direct debits can also be withdrawn. But you can expect to receive a reminder with legal action within a few days.
        • leobg 14 hours ago
          If they broke the contract? Let them come.
  • throway12345 17 hours ago
    Is it by any chance because your POST is requesting a summary of the reasoning, e.g. setting {summary: "auto"} or somesuch? I know that requires verification.
  • gidellav 16 hours ago
    Just use openrouter, allows to connect to all models
    • Scene_Cast2 16 hours ago
      OpenRouter has some gotchas with OpenAI models. In some cases it requires an OpenAI key.
      • Deathmax 16 hours ago
        Not anymore, especially after other routers like Vercel's AI Gateway and proxies from LLM providers like Fal, DeepInfra, and AtlasCloud didn't get the memo of enforcing BYOK for ID verification required models after GPT-5's release.
  • pixel_popping 14 hours ago
    This is honestly a huge shame as they aren't legally required to do so, this is PURELY for mass data collection and correlation.
  • reustle 14 hours ago
    Also terrible that purchased credits expire after 1 year. Not sure how that is legal.

    https://community.openai.com/t/api-credits-amount-get-expire...

  • alganet 6 hours ago
    That's probably a good thing.
  • bn-l 21 hours ago
    Was this for all models?
    • andai 16 hours ago
      I believe it started with o3 Pro, back in the day.
    • retube 20 hours ago
      Good q. I was trying with gpt-5, but it seems gpt-4o works without verification. However 4o is I guess not as good, plus it seems to be twice as expensive as 5
      • bn-l 9 hours ago
        Gpt $ is the money gpt. I don’t trust the benchmarks and artificial analysis’ benchmarks are bunk.
  • Lapra 18 hours ago
    They are a porn company now, after all.
  • tensility 16 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • dang 10 hours ago
      Ok, but can you please not fulminate on HN? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

      This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

    • bloppe 13 hours ago
      Yikes
    • senordevnyc 15 hours ago
      I understand the anger, but do you really want to live in the world of anarchy that would be required for these people to starve? Because if the billionaires are starving, the rest of us are long gone at that point.
      • add-sub-mul-div 14 hours ago
        "Letting them starve" is clearly rhetorical shorthand for not giving their businesses money. It's based on the irony of the power imbalance, none of these people will ever starve if their businesses fail. Nobody thinks they're going to starve, nobody was intended to take away that literal interpretation, how could you possibly think this interpretation was intended or is worth discussing.
        • senordevnyc 12 hours ago
          I guess I was thrown off by “let them starve, the way they want us to”. Doesn’t make much sense if you’re using “starve” to mean totally different things.

          Even then, it’s nonsensical to think that you’re going to “starve” these companies of revenue, companies that are growing faster than any in history, bringing in trillions in revenue, and have appreciable fractions of our entire species using them daily.

      • helicone 11 hours ago
        anarchy isn't required for them to starve. these people could be jailed and their assets frozen, for example, and their jail food would then be stolen by the more physically intimidating inmates. regardless of your political opinions on the subject, this is a perfectly cromulent scenario that includes them starving without there being anarchy.
      • exe34 13 hours ago
        To be fair, to them, starving is "other people aren't spending their money on me". Remember Emlo sued people who stopped advertising on his personal blog when he let the Nazis back in.
  • Kiboneu 16 hours ago
    One more step towards worldcoin .. .
  • s5300 17 hours ago
    [dead]
  • SarahPeter 18 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • supriyo-biswas 17 hours ago
      It appears that you have quite a few LLM comments going on here. While your customers (as you mention in your profile) may appreciate it, it is typically not looked upon well here. Thank you.
    • fouc 18 hours ago
      > ID verification is becoming common across AI platforms

      Yikes if true. I wonder why?

      • deaux 10 hours ago
        Ironically, it's a hallucination.
  • chistev 20 hours ago
    Interesting