13 comments

  • tom_ 1 hour ago
    Here's a tip: any time you've got before/after screen grabs, don't do this thing where you've got to drag a line to switch between the two, don't have a fade, don't have a sliding transition, or anything like that. Just have it display one, then have a single button that you click to have it immediately display the other. Then when you click the button again, it goes back to displaying the first one again. Click, click, click - and your eyes do all the work for you.

    (Not unrelated: answer from Andrei Herasimchuk at https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Adobe-Photoshop-differentiate...)

    Also: I can't work out which image is which. Taking the first image as an example: we've got MATERIAL-STYLE on the left, and LIFTKIT on the right. But what's the left? Does this mean that when you drag the line to the right, revealing the left image, you're looking at MATERIAL-STYLE? Or does this mean you see MATERIAL-STYLE when you drag the line to the left?

    (This might seem like pointless quibbling, but this thing bills itself as the The UI Framework for Perfectionists.)

    • Garrett_Mack 39 minutes ago
      Hey Tom, I'm the creator. They're actually even worse than what you're describing. On touchscreens, the handle slides up and down as you try to move it left or right. Horrible, isn't it? One of these days, I'll get around to fixing it. The only reason it hasn't been done yet is that, to be perfectly honest, you're the first one to give this feedback. So I appreciate it!
      • tom_ 15 minutes ago
        If you got rid of the slider entirely and just had it flick between the two images instantly, the entire handle business would become irrelevant, and you'd never need to think about it again!

        I admit I don't do web stuff, so perhaps this is hard to do. But I think it's the ideal. Before/after comparisons are very easy to assess if you can flick between the two cases and let your eyes show you the differences. The value of having an image that's part one and part the other (and two completely separate parts!) seems a bit questionable.

        (My line of work means I'm unlikely to end up a customer, so you don't have to pay attention to my opinions.)

    • bobbylarrybobby 51 minutes ago
      I agree, the x-axis labels are not helpful! Thankfully, the first example is “buttons with corrected icon spacing”, and the image on the right looks much better than the one on the left (a bigger difference in quality than in the other two examples), which is visible when the slider is on the left.

      Suggestion to devs: put the label “material-style” in the lower left of its image and “liftkit” in the lower right of its image, and cover them appropriately as the slider moves, and then it'll be clear which framework the current image (or portion of it) belongs to.

      • Garrett_Mack 38 minutes ago
        Thanks for the tip! That actually was the first idea but I didn't end up doing it, for some reason. Thanks for the suggestion.
    • accoil 1 hour ago
      I've been wondering that myself. The descriptions seem to indicate that fully dragged to the left is liftkit, but my first assumption was that would be fully dragged to the right.
      • reactordev 1 hour ago
        it's bad UX. There's a little tiny arrow on the line's grab indicator showing which "side" you should look at. You can barely see it. Below there's the two labels floated to either side...
        • tom_ 54 minutes ago
          If you're referring to the <·> thing, you could well be right? I figured that was merely an indication that you could drag the thing sideways!

          (And I'm clearly not the only one that feels this aspect of the site would benefit from another pass...)

          • reactordev 12 minutes ago
            Ironically a UX double entendre that misses both.
  • Garrett_Mack 45 minutes ago
    Hi everyone, I'm the creator of LiftKit. This project is EXTREMELY early and, as everyone has pointed out, not ready for production use. It's a solo project I work on in my free time. I'm a self-taught, so a lot of the weird choices you're seeing can be attributed to the decisions of someone who had never built something like this before.

    LIFTKIT IS FREE AND OPEN SOURCE. The website's just out of date.

    https://github.com/Chainlift/liftkit

    Most of the feedback folks are providing here was raised about 6 months ago on Reddit and is actively being worked on. You can check it out here: https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/1m41arx/i_spent_18_...

    KNOWN ISSUES INCLUDE: - Docs are a nightmare, screenshots are ridiculous instead of real components - Components are inaccessible spaghetti

    CURRENT PRIORITIES: - Rebuilding with radix primitives - Improving docs

    TO LEARN MORE: - This youtube video explains the gist of the system (though it's also a little outdated) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1DANFZYJDw

    I'll reply to folks as best I can.

  • candiddevmike 3 hours ago
    I thought this was an unhinged parody of a design site, kinda surprised it's a real thing. Unfortunately the design isn't for me, things look off center and the overall "weight" of components feels off.
    • jofzar 43 minutes ago
      100 agree, I was like "this does look better" then realised I was saying it for the before in every example.
    • danielvaughn 1 hour ago
      I hate to pile on since it's already getting some criticism, but I agree. It's kind of a good example why designers don't purely rely on mathematically consistent designs. Getting things to "look right" often means shifting pixels here and there ever so slightly, so that the math is a bit off but it feels better on the eyes.
    • cluckindan 3 hours ago
      Agreed. I’ve spent considerable time on scale-based design, and 1.618 always feels too large of an interval.
      • carshodev 49 minutes ago
        Yeah I tried using a similar "golden rule" after reading a design article about it. I based my css variable sizes on it but I kept having to use manual px and rem values instead because stuff just never felt correct.
  • nickradford 2 hours ago
    I wouldn't trust a UI framework where all of the components are shown as images instead of instances of the actual UI framework...
    • cchance 1 hour ago
      If they showed the actual css, people could just ... copy it, and then how could they charge for the secret golden ratio code lol
      • Garrett_Mack 36 minutes ago
        The CSS is in the github repo here: https://github.com/Chainlift/liftkit

        LiftKit's free forever to anyone. It's just early stages and bad.

        The idea was that if a company wanted to hire us for direct support, we'd do that. But the problems are: [A] no enterprise in their right minds would use this thing in its current state and [B] "us" is me and I don't have time to do that anymore

    • tkzed49 2 hours ago
      I clicked on Dropdown, thinking it's one of the more complex things to implement. It doesn't even have a picture.
    • slillibri 2 hours ago
      There is that, but I get the impression that you could hire an expert to help.
      • Garrett_Mack 35 minutes ago
        yeah it's hella pushy about that isn't it? really need to tone it down
    • digiown 1 hour ago
      And one that drops frames when I scroll through on Firefox.
    • MomsAVoxell 2 hours ago
      Yes, I too felt that way as I began to read, it was an immediate disappointment, kind of, that the UI wasn’t on full display, front and center.

      I wouldn’t trust a framework that requires me to involve myself with JavaScript, nextJS, and React, also… but I am generally of the opinion that a framework pitching itself as a UI kit, must pretty much not be a plugin for a web browser…

      • Garrett_Mack 33 minutes ago
        Yeah the docs are like that because I didn't know React well enough to make my own docs and so I stuck with Webflow and realized very quickly I'd made a huge mistake. But I needed to get something out there to buy time while I figure out how to make grownup docs.
  • moonlighter 3 hours ago
    I tried to find pricing for it (the top "contact sales" is a no-starter; too much initial friction. Just tell me how much it costs?! At the footer is a pricing calculator... I asked for pricing for 10 top-level pages and 5 sub-level pages (they explain the difference)... came out to a whopping $16,500 (you're reading that right... SIXTEEN THOUSAND). No thanks.
    • khimaros 2 hours ago
      this seems to be for custom design services. IANAL but the libraries and design language seems to be open source and free to use.
      • lelandfe 2 hours ago
        Indeed; if you look at the top nav this is a site that's an agency first and a design system second.

        This design system really deserves its own site.

        • Garrett_Mack 32 minutes ago
          Agreed. New docs are under construction and they'll be posted on a separate website. The agency came first and then liftkit came after, which is why it's hosted on there now. But I'm shutting down agency operations and so the whole thing will be liftkit eventually.
      • khimaros 2 hours ago
  • Nekorosu 2 hours ago
    There is a great research paper on the topic https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10792139/#:~:text=T...
  • dmd 44 minutes ago
  • learyjk 36 minutes ago
    The creator of this is a friend of mine and just gonna chime in that he’s a fantastic and talented dude. Nice surprise to see his project listed here! I think he’s working on something new called Liftkit Studio too I’m looking forward to.

    He has a cool YouTube channel too. Check out “The Secret Science of Perfect Spacing”

    https://youtu.be/9ElrcTtAxzA?si=kbAzQDGQSCCqymTO

    Party on

  • helterskelter 3 hours ago
    Interesting idea, but I haven't found a compelling reason that phi is inherently superior, aesthetically speaking. Seems more like a marketing spiel.

    That said, it still looks good.

  • absqueued 2 hours ago
    Wow AGPL for CSS ui framework!!
  • cush 3 hours ago
    While the golden ratio thing is a bit of a gimmick, the components look gorgeous and really well laid out
    • Garrett_Mack 26 minutes ago
      Thanks! Yep, super gimmick. I picked golden ratio because I thought it was a good eyecatcher.

      To be clear; You don't HAVE to use the golden ratio. You can set your global scale factor to anything you want in /liftkit-core.css. I just use 1.618 because I like it.

  • moribvndvs 1 hour ago
    Requires nextjs, :(
  • claytongulick 1 hour ago
    I really wish they would start with "this is for next.js/react".

    I had to dig through the docs and get to the installation instructions just to find out that it's React only.

    It looks great, but I'm always confused why design system folks wouldn't base everything off web components, which work with almost any framework.

    • Garrett_Mack 27 minutes ago
      I didn't know what web components were until after I'd released it for React. I was working in a complete vacuum until I put this out there, and then I started to get involved with the community. Before that I was pretty much the only designer/techie I knew. I'm not a professional developer. I'm just a designer who knows enough TS to piece things together.

      So having it for React/NextJS isn't an affirmative decision. It's just the only thing I knew how to do at the time. After the first launch last summer I had a couple folks reach out to help port to SvelteKit and Vue, but you know how it is. People get busy.