18 comments

  • mayama 32 minutes ago
    Regarding Indian private space sector, In addition to skyroot solid rocket, following are noteworthy

    Agnikul is planning to launch semi-cryo kerosene rocket pretty soon. Their engine is 3d printed and use electric pump fed 25kN small engine. Planning to launch 4 clustered engines as first stage and already did suborbital test, with some parachute splash down reusability claims.

    Astrobase is recent entrant. With decent funding and former ISRO scientists as core team, developing 800kN FFCS methalox engine. FFCS is called holy grail of liquid engines. They have acquired largest metal 3d engine and planning VTVL 1st stage reusability

    • alephnerd 28 minutes ago
      Also, both Pixxel and Agnikul are also targeting orbital data center launches this year as well for defense applications (which is what the entire ODC story is about).
  • itissid 1 hour ago
    There is just so much that can go wrong with rocket launches if you do cursory reading about these things. A few random examples: The lowest stage cant just be "turned down" or modulated because they work by burning an inner solid rubber lining that's like an annular cylinder. The first three stages are roughly doing the job sequence: `lift off the ground -> reach target altitude -> reach target orbital velocity` and each stage is modulated for atmospheric pressure, gravity. Another limit is you can't really design it for a human in the middle(like a jet plane), so the rocket's computer needs to do everything, and when the rocket's pitch or yaw or roll(in a manner of speaking) go off beyond a nominal range its game over.

    ISRO has a very good track record of launching rockets with solid state engines. I do wonder if almost all of their expertise was used for the first three stages(and they are not 3d printed)? And how much more difficult it is to make the last stage as compared to the first three, which as I understand, was the stage designed and tested by skyroot itself(manufactured by Wipro 3D).

    • Abh1Works 30 minutes ago
      I think an important thing here is that the company is almost 8 years old. Which, is not old for a defense tech manufacturer, but does give them leeway to develop and test
  • josefresco 21 minutes ago
    For those interested, just read a great book on this topic: When the Heavens Went on Sale by Ashlee Vance: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/62050244-when-the-heaven...

    It profiles: Astra, Firefly, Planet Labs, and Rocket Lab

    • 1e1a 16 minutes ago
      this is Skyroot Aerospace
  • zbentley 2 hours ago
    And with $160MM in funding at a $1.1B valuation? I don't know about their debt, but to get to LEO in 8 years on that little money is extremely impressive.
    • helsinkiandrew 1 hour ago
      > And with $160MM in funding at a $1.1B valuation? I don't know about their debt, but to get to LEO in 8 years on that little money is extremely impressive.

      Interestingly that's $5 million less than the the movie Interstellar cost to make.

      • appplication 41 minutes ago
        It’s interesting that this is less funding/valuation than hundreds of other random B2B Series C/D companies that may not even exist in 5 years.

        No point, just perspective.

        • Imustaskforhelp 25 minutes ago
          Indian VC's don't really have the same appetite for deep tech as compared to America/Europe. R&D within Indian Enterprises is significantly less as compared to its peers.

          From what I know, its partially because of how taxation structures incentivize research as R&D tax breaks or similar don't particularly exist in India

          All of this makes founders more likely to move abroad where such research is more valued which makes even less Indian deep tech startups and successes exist. This creates a vicious cycle.

          I would also consider that Indian VC scene as compared to America undervalues quite decently even for B2B or even supposing identical companies and even then, Sequoia and some other American VC firms are still the most valued and I feel as if that given their expertise and contacts (other companies that the VC's have invested in being in America), there would be a slight push towards Europe/America in general. Another argument could very well be that in India CS engineer labour costs much less which is honestly some of the largest expertise for any company.

          Though Indian VC scene is thriving and Bangalore is interesting but still Silicon valley is different.

          There was a blog post which talked about VC dynamics and VC's value your product not on how much the real value they really see in the project is but rather on how much money you would require. So ironically, projects which require larger budgets/funds for researching, larger salaries to work would then have larger valuations.

    • londons_explore 1 hour ago
      I wonder what their cost-per-launch will end up being?

      Can they compete with reusable American rockets for $/kg by just building disposable but very cheap rockets?

      After all, plenty of other disposable things have outcompeted non disposable versions... Diapers... Pens... Lighters... Vapes...

    • Abh1Works 25 minutes ago
      Other than whats publicly available, an interesting thought about this is how they were able to launch and create something within the highly corrupted political system. Every launch, stage and approval probably required sometype of bribe (even with the current governments focus on deep tech and scientific development)
    • londons_explore 1 hour ago
      If you do all the work in India, you have low materials costs and low labour costs.
      • zbentley 1 hour ago
        Somewhat, but rocket engineering has some upward cost pressures that offset the savings from being in India: expertise is expensive even adjusting for the cost of labor (many staff are likely competing on salary with the rest of the world--rocket engineers/scientists are in high demand with lots of likely sponsors for immigration); aerospace materials/fabrication have a pretty global supply and patent chain even given how big and diverse India's industrial base is; safety and engineering tolerances are incentivized to meet global standards (many prospective launch/payload customers and investors are international), and so on.

        I'm no expert, but I suspect that even if you apply a generous discount for being in India, Skyroot's economics are still quite impressive.

        Edits: clarity

        • literalAardvark 52 minutes ago
          Rocketry is tightly controlled by ITAR, so mobility is lower than you'd expect for a high value field.
        • Imustaskforhelp 42 minutes ago
          My cousin is an aerospace engineer and works in ISRO (Indian space research organization), its impressive what they are doing but I'd like to chime in on a few things.

          I am unsure about private salaries but in govt. jobs, because it follows a rigid structure, the salary is still lower than what you might expect and is around the mark of 20-25 thousand dollars per year. It's similar to administrative services or depending on the position, equal to teachers/professors .

          I have heard my cousin say that its hard for people to move outside because for example SpaceX/NASA couldn't hire non-American person because of laws and regulations due to security purposes.

          From what I know, my cousin actually got some job offers when he had gone to give a speech recently from Management companies

          20-25k$ in India isn't bad but strictly speaking, Computer science earns comparable in India at the same level.

          The value of the job is mostly in govt rather than private and the benefit of it is that the work is much less stressful rather than private companies stress and just like how NASA has some prestige attached to it in America, same way goes for ISRO in India.

        • devnonymous 46 minutes ago
          > rocket engineers/scientists are in high demand with lots of likely sponsors for immigration

          I wouldn't be too sure about the immigration part, when even a software engineer hire for a defence/defence adjacent job requires jumping through a number of bureaucratic hoops of security clearances. Even the companies with deep pockets don't always get the best people in the world -- they just get the best people that HR can actually hire.

          • zbentley 15 minutes ago
            That's often true, but less true than it was a decade ago. Private, commercial space companies are a lot more numerous now. Sure, most of them have military contracts/oversight as well, but there are more opportunities with them that don't require military/government certification/authorization of immigrant hires than there were previously.

            Also, there are plenty of space companies that aren't in the US/UK/China who are hiring (and more willing to work with non-domestic employees since they're playing catch-up), and plenty of companies in US/UK/China who employ contractors that aren't subject to the same hiring restrictions as the first-party/defense-contracted company.

            There are a lot more specialized/high-expertise roles here than the ones critical to a nation's space program (or fungible with making weapons). Random examples off the top of my head include crew/life support expertise, launch facility engineering, LEO consumer telecommunications, and more. Space hasn't been fully commodified/detached from government interests--not by a long suborbital burn--but it's moving that direction enough to thaw out the ability to immigrate for work a bit.

      • bell-cot 1 hour ago
        True, but:

        Consider how many rocket development efforts squandered 10X to 100X the money, and >8 years, without making it to orbit.

        Using solid fuel for their first 3 stages also makes it far easier. I'd take that as evidence of their management wisely picking a good shape for the org's learning curve. Vs. chasing the long-odds bragging rights & likely heartbreaks of a liquid-fuels-only version 1.0.

  • Ari_Ugwu 3 minutes ago
    I have an AI generated podcast that tries to unearth some of the negative spin that develops around these amazing achievements. No surprise there was a spike in misinformation this week and I’m sure there will be more to come.

    It can be hard when you are blindsided by negativity that seems to come out of nowhere. Hopefully this is helpful to us all https://rss.com/podcasts/the-narrative-networks-podcast/3017...

  • anon291 0 minutes ago
    India desperately needs more r&d and advanced manufacturing. Good for them; congrats to the team
  • sidcool 2 hours ago
    Only the third country to achieve this. Kudos.

    There's another startup trying reusable rockets.

    • rrr_oh_man 48 minutes ago
      > Only the third country to achieve this.

      What do you mean by this?

      • darth_avocado 28 minutes ago
        Probably meant the third country with a private sector capability to launch rockets, US and China being the other two.
        • a34729t 15 minutes ago
          as opposed to New Zealand?
  • jdiez17 2 hours ago
    Extremely strong performance from India’s Skyroot with their Vikram-1 rocket. I can say that many in the space industry are looking for new launch capacity to LEO.
    • hulitu 2 hours ago
      > Extremely strong performance

      Strong ? They shall learn from SpaceX how one explodes rockets on the launch pad. /s

  • walrus01 1 hour ago
    The first, second and third stages all being solid rockets also means India now has a global-range ICBM, with only a little bit of modification needed to make it storable in a silo. Privately developed, but I would be astonished if the Indian military isn't well aware of this new capability.
    • nirav72 1 hour ago
      India has had the ability to reach LEO and beyond for a while now. So bringing down a nuke anywhere on the planet wouldn't be that difficult for them. That goes for any country that has LEO launch capabilities. Of course miniaturization of the nuclear payload is another matter.
    • ghm2199 1 hour ago
      The mil have had solid propulsion for a while https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni-VI
      • walrus01 1 hour ago
        Right, but see the details for estimated range and the map. Not that India has any foreseeable need to nuke Argentina but it's not in range. It's entirely possible the public data is wrong and the Agni VI has a global range.

        But by definition if you can put something into a 350x350 km low earth orbit (something like 7800m/s total delta V) you could also deliver a re-entering payload from your launch site to any other spot on earth, within the limitations of the inclination you're launching to.

        • rrrazdan 1 hour ago
          Multiple sources think that the real range is an ICBM level. And the Indian government purposely limits it's range. No strategic reason to communicate a larger range than needed and why have an headline that reads, "India develops capability to nuke Europe or US"?
        • londons_explore 1 hour ago
          I was under the impression long range missiles aren't much use in global warfare anymore, because they are easy targets for missile defence systems.

          Even if your target doesn't have missile defence systems, any ally of theirs along the route can intercept too.

    • mayama 50 minutes ago
      India has developed ASAT, which is arguably more complicated that ICBM, agni series, they developed. India routinely understates ranges and appear non threatening. Agni5 and 6 are genuine ICBM, and with little tuning could reach anywhere in the world. India's bureaucracy and MEA is beset with gandhian mindset who try to avoid confrontations and minimise belligerence, opposite of PRC wolf warriors I guess.
      • alephnerd 24 minutes ago
        > India's bureaucracy and MEA is beset with gandhian mindset who try to avoid confrontations and minimise belligerence, opposite of PRC wolf warriors I guess.

        It isn't because of some purported Gandhian mindset. It's becuase India is in a pacing conflict with China and Pakistan, whereas China is in one with the US and historically the USSR. Assuming the Chagos Archipelago dispute gets resolved in the next decade (India and France backs it's return to Mauritius because Mauritius' police and military leadership are under direct Indian control [0] but the US prefers Chagos remaining under British control because we are closer aligned), India has no need to explicitly publicize ICBM capabilities.

        Additionally, publicly stating India has ICBM capabilities makes it harder to land transnational mining deals [1] because then discussions with Australia, Brazil, Canada, etc adopt a nuclear proliferation dimension as well as placing a target on India's private sector because of SpaceTech and DefenseTech's dual use implications.

        [0] - https://thesecretariat.in/article/inside-raisina-hill-nsa-to...

        [1] - https://www.ft.com/content/c5868e2f-8d19-4393-93be-2ad726a63...

    • delta_p_delta_x 56 minutes ago
      India has had ICBMs for decades now.[1]

      [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni-V?wprov=sfla1

  • ambicapter 1 hour ago
    4 stages feels like a lot of added complexity for your first launch. I assume it gives you more performance margin to drop weight/stages more often?
    • MobiusHorizons 1 hour ago
      4 stages is certainly a lot more than most rockets, but most rockets don’t use solid rocket stages. Solid rocket motors are generally much more reliable/ simpler than liquid fueled stages, but they can’t be throttled or turned off early which makes it hard to achieve precise orbits. My guess is the extra stages allow for better control by carefully choosing when to light the next stage. The scout family of rockets are also 4 stage solid rockets and probably a good comparison.
      • londons_explore 1 hour ago
        Don't you need at least a little thrust ~40 mins later to circularize the orbit?

        Obviously solid rockets can't be relit.

        Could that be the use of the 4th stage?

        • numpad0 15 minutes ago
          Rockets are usually two-staged + satellites. The booster take it to outside of the atmosphere, then the upper stage puts it into a ballistic trajectory, and the payload does the circularization burn 45 minutes or so after the liftoff at the peak of the parabola.

          Above is the basic semantics, and it can be further optimized, such as by extending battery power for the second stage to use it for circularization, inserting a single purpose satellite-like pusher device above the responsibility boundary at the top of second stage and payload satellite and calling it the third stage, or just adding actual third stage above second stage, etc.

          Adding more and more stages improve performance per Konstantin Tsiolkovsky's rocket equation, but it'll add risk factors and also obviously add more dead weights in electronics and engines and support equipment, so 2-3 stages is usually the good balance between performance and risk/costs. You can have as many stages as you want if you think you can handle it.

        • MobiusHorizons 1 hour ago
          Good point! The final stage being liquid would also give them more control to fix any errors with the orbit.
    • walrus01 1 hour ago
      It's three solid rocket boosters stacked on top of each other and a very tiny liquid fueled engine on the 4th stage. I would be interested in what the delta/v stats/capability of the 4th stage booster are with 350 kg payload.
    • wat10000 1 hour ago
      A partially empty stage wastes mass on propellant tanks sized for the full load. The mathematical ideal would be an infinite number of infinitesimally small stages.
      • londons_explore 1 hour ago
        Except you pay the weight for the nozzles on each stage.

        That makes there be a mathematically optimal number.

  • bovermyer 3 hours ago
    That's pretty cool. The phrase "3D-printed engine" stuck out to me as neat, too.
  • vjsrinivas 2 hours ago
    India's space work often went under the radar. Im glad they're getting the success and attention they deserve.
  • ColdStream 4 days ago
    Fantastic news! Always good to see others manage achieve great things.
  • ghm2199 1 hour ago
    A small but bright light in an economy where manufacturing jobs are hard to come by (https://archive.ph/Haj8n).
  • andsoitis 1 hour ago
    Congratulations!
  • guess_who_is 2 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • nubg 1 hour ago
    Superpower by 2026 it seems
    • orsenthil 1 hour ago
      It did become a developed country by 2020 according the original vision.