A Necessary History of the Oddest Letter: W

(lithub.com)

50 points | by NaOH 2 hours ago

5 comments

  • Sharlin 1 hour ago
    The history of W in Finnish is interesting (for some values of "interesting"). Mikael Agricola [1], a Lutheran clergyman, essentially created literary Finnish from scratch in the 1500s (before that, Finnish had existed solely as a spoken, vernacular language, with official business conducted in Swedish (or German), and until the reformation, the language of the Church had of course been Latin).

    Agricola had to create an alphabet for Finnish, and naturally borrowed heavily from Swedish and, to a lesser extent, German. His orthography was not particularly self-consistent, and for example the /u/ and /v/ phonemes might be written as either "u", "v", or "w" in Agricola's works. For example, the word uusi (/u:si/; "new") was written by him as "wsi", indeed using "w" as a literal "double-u". The /w/ sound did not exist in spoken Finnish.

    Over time, Finnish became the almost entirely phonetic language that it is now, with letters matching phonemes essentially one-to-one. /u/ was regularized as "u" and /v/ as "v". As /w/ still doesn't exist, the letter "w" is very rarely used, mainly in some surnames as an alternative spelling of "v". In loanwords "w" becomes "v" (e.g. "whiskey" -> viski). Phonebooks also used to collate "v" and "w" as the same letter. Finns with a thick accent (see "Rally English" [2]) tend to pronounce the foreign /w/ as /v/ when speaking English, similar to Germans.

    Today, imitation of Agricola's orthography is the Finnish version of "ye olde English", used for humorous or intensifying effect. For example, the word vanha "old" might be spelled "wanha" in the name of an antiques shop. "Wanha" also used to be a standard "old news" reply on IRC, especially to links that had already been pasted by someone (and this became so annoying on some channels that it became a kick-worthy offense).

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikael_Agricola

    [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_English

  • blauditore 27 minutes ago
    I first read the title as "oldest letter", and kept waiting for an explanation or twist in the article, getting increasingly confused. I just felt like sharing this, thanks for reading my comment.
  • zarzavat 1 hour ago
    Would be remiss to not mention W's biopic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg2j7mZ9-2Y
    • olexsmir 1 hour ago
      just come here to link this video...
  • AnodicElegy 2 hours ago
    The most irritating way in which W is odd is that it requires three syllables to name, while all the other English letters are monosyllabic. This leads to many unfortunate situations where it takes substantially longer to say the acronym of a title than to say the title itself. Take for example, the World Wildlife Fund, which contains four syllables (or maybe five, depending how you pronounce "wild") and whose acronym contains seven. Given how many acronyms contain the word "World" in particular, this is clearly a massive inefficiency in the way we go about our lives. I've started a campaign to rename it something reasonable like "woo" or "woe", but neither Reuters nor the AP seem particularly interested.
    • anon_cow1111 1 hour ago
      Stupid, but related amusing nostalgia:

      By default. Unreal Tournament 2003/4 used to have in-game text chat that would use the "Microsoft Sam" voice synthesizer to read player messages aloud to everyone in the room... MS Sam took so long to pronounce the letter "W /DoubleYou" that you could just go into a server and drop a 512 character "W-bomb" and leave. Everyone in the room would have to listen to several minutes of dubbayou's assuming they never turned off the voice feature.

      (I miss those days of genuinely annoying but still apolitical random trolling)

    • yongjik 1 hour ago
      The name for "Y" starts with a "w" sound, so why not make it symmetric: let's call "Y" why and "W" yay.
      • fdcjjrvdcg 1 hour ago
        Ok I hate this and I love this. Yay indeed!
    • lynndotpy 53 minutes ago
      There is precedent among English speakers for "dub" or "dubya".

      George W. Bush is something referred to as "dubya", for the "W" part. And modern slang "W" or "dubs" as shorthand for "win".

      "Dubya" fits in the ABC song just as well as double-you, while "dubs" can fit as "dubs and X, Y and Z".

      You might have better luck with NPR, they assure me that they read every email.

    • nkrisc 1 hour ago
      Or, of course, WWW (world-wide web) where each word of the acronym is itself a single syllable. This means the acronym is 6 syllables longer if you were speaking it.
      • bluebarbet 20 minutes ago
        Indeed. This has to rank as one of the worst branding mistakes in history. All TBL had to do was call the subdomain "web" but instead he went for the infuriatingly fussy and tongue-tying "www".
    • ortusdux 1 hour ago
      It's also the only letter that is not used in its own pronunciation. It really breaks the cadence of alphabet books!
    • jfengel 1 hour ago
      In German it's called "vay". That's brief, and gets a few million people on your side.
      • anamexis 1 hour ago
        Counterpoint: Ypsilon.
        • k__ 1 hour ago
          Fair, but Y isn't used much in German.
    • pavlov 1 hour ago
      It’s commonly called “dub” when brevity is called for, as in “dub dub dub” = www.

      Or is this just a tech industry idiom that I’ve been taking for granted…

      • roryirvine 1 hour ago
        Though it does make you sound like a boy scout...

        Wuh works better, imho, though it does tend to degrade into "wuh'uh'uh" when said quickly.

        The BBC tried very hard in 1994/5 to persuade people to pronounce "http://www." as "hit web" - thankfully, that failed to gain any traction whatsoever.

        • fdcjjrvdcg 1 hour ago
          I don’t know… I always had a soft spot for “hit web”. Makes it sound so cool. It’s dumb but I quite like it :D
      • ButlerianJihad 50 minutes ago
        We proposed “dub-three” in accord with a guy who was fighting the Clipper Chip
    • Sharlin 1 hour ago
      Not to mention "www", which when pronounced is actually three times longer than its expansion.
      • sheept 45 minutes ago
        For a native speaker in casual speech, it'll only be at most a bit slower than its expansion because English is stress-timed
      • layer8 34 minutes ago
        You could shorten it to “sextuple u”.
    • dyzone 54 minutes ago
      W is "double u"
      • chrisweekly 26 minutes ago
        Yet its written shape is a double-V.
      • Razengan 51 minutes ago
        And that's why it's my favorite letter :)
    • ButlerianJihad 51 minutes ago
      The erstwhile World Wide Wrestling Federation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWF_trademark_dispute
    • andsoitis 2 hours ago
      > I've started a campaign to rename it something reasonable like "woo" or "woe", but neither Reuters nor the AP seem particularly interested.

      I support your campaign. Other candidates: wa, weh, wu

      • MrBuddyCasino 1 hour ago
        In German its „weh“. But then V is „phau“, so its not as easy to confuse as in English.
        • tgv 1 hour ago
          So why did I learn doppel Vau then? Has there been a change of heart?
        • andsoitis 1 hour ago
          I know German.

          In English, I don’t think vee and weh would be confused, but I’m partial to wa.

    • BoorishBears 2 hours ago
      Why not simple, W: making a mouth shape as-if to say "What", then sharply exhale a puff of air instead
  • neuroelectron 2 hours ago
    (U ω U)